Sam,

We are doing our part to more effectively limit customer access to child pornography over the Internet. For example, last June, we stopped providing access to many of the newsgroups we had previously provided. We clearly think this was the right thing to do. We still offer newsgroups in the Big 8 newsgroups hierarchies. Customers who want access to the newsgroups we don’t provide can do so through commercially available newsgroup services.

Eric

Well thank god I read this before my planned switch over to verizon. The newsgroups were the one thing that I was going to choose over the local cable but they appeared to have messed that up.

Seems like Verizon is sending all of the "U"'s to information camps.
Step 1: Remove freedom of speech.

You are blocking. Don't deny it. Just admint you are now the gestapo of the internet.

Enjoy your jerkness.

Admit it.

Be free.

Yeah, I don't mind paying a subscription for usenet service to a company that actually does it well, but to have verizon drop services while continuing to charge exactly the same price for the monthly *ahem* service is pretty galling... Luckily I was thinking of dropping my landline anyway, so maybe I'll just jump to cable.

So why not just remove the *offending* newsgroups? Shotgunning the entire alt.* hierarchy is stupid. But, then, if it was not but for being stupid, Verizon would have no reputation at all.

Let's stick it to Verizon and leave en mass. Then they'll realize that there business model of f*cking over their customers isn't so great after all. F*ck verizon.

"This change will not affect our customers’ ability to use the Internet..." Actually it does; the World Wide Web is not the only part of the Internet.

These things really make you wonder... Is China's censorship of the Internet any different than Corporate America's?

I guess you won't mind then, when I subtract $10 from my future bill payments, because I have to use another service provider for what I contracted with Verizon to provide!

I'm going to switch away from my verizon wireless, my verizon phone, and my verizon internet. That's 5 cell phones, 3 landlines, and a DSL account.

I will cancel all my verizon phone, cellphone, and internet services as soon as I can find new providers who do nor follow your insane policy.

...what they said!

One more thing, the reason why Verizon can do this is because (as much as I despise lobbyists) there is no such thing as a powerful Newsgroup lobby in DC.

I think Verizon & Roadrunner wanted to cut their Usenet costs, and they used "child porn" as a convenient excuse.

If we're to believe their reasoning, then ISPs should shut down POP & SMTP because pedo pervs occasionally share their illegal content via email.

Now that these guys have established a precedent, I imagine that other ISPs will join the "me to" bandwagon and will shut off their Usenet services. Before too long everyone will need a membership with a standalone Usenet service (Newsguy, Giganews, Easynews, etc.) if they want newsgroups.

For what it's worth I've used Newsguy for a couple years, and they're one of the better values in my opinion. Their memberships are cheap (10GB / $3 month, 50GB / $8 month, Unlimited / $15 month) and include a lot of free extras I couldn't find with other services (32 connections, SSL, NNTP & Web access, newsgroup search, etc.).

They're also giving away a free month of newsgroup access to Verizon, Roadrunner and AT&T customers, and may be worth a peek if you need to make other arrangements for your newsgroup access...

http://newsguy.com/freemonth.htm

Marcus

Although child pornography, and many forms of information circulated on the Internet, are illegal or border on the same, Verizon and other ISPs use of the big 8 is a form of censorship and may violate the FCC ruling on free access to Internet content.

The use of the big 8 in newsgroup access throws out a large number of groups that are not part of the child pornography controversy such as alt.satellite groups and others.

Verizon may have to weather a storm of legal action challenging its policy, and subsequent damages awarded to the affected classes.

FYI = news.motzarella.org has 30,504 alt* text groups VS. news.verizon.net 3,648 alt* text groups.

Check it out.

This makes comcast a much more attractive isp. They don't offer free newsgroup access but offer a faster service. I'll be cancelling my account

What a pathetic move. No other word describes it. It's such a transparent excuse to use child porn to shut down the entire newsgroup collection. "Big 8"?! Are you freakin' kidding me? Losers!

Just posting to register my displeasure at trying to log on to my favorite usenet groups and finding you dropped them. The value proposition offered by Verizon definitely went down today. It kind of feels like it did the first day I got FIOS and found out that I no longer got MSNBC.
I'll likely do nothing about it as I am a lazy SOB, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it to my friends. When I move, I won't be taking FIOS with me.

Verizon is using child porn as an excuse for shutting down subscriber access to Usenet. I would love to see the internal bandwidth data -- how much money will Verizon save with this move? And will customers who purchased FIOS with the promise of Usenet access receive discounted rates now that this access is no longer available? (Of course not; we all know the answer to that one.)

Heaven forbid you just delete the 88 offending groups and maybe any with erotica or such in the name. Alt was the only heading w/o some one deciding about minutia and such. so this is an attack on free speech and in the case of alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.bootlegs activities allowed under DMCA concert recordings are exempt from DMCA as long as they aren't sold but traded and that there is no commercial version available, meaning an album of the exact concert. So now the low price is the only feature going for verizon internet now, which isn't all too much. I know three folks dropping most of their calling package features to make space in their budget for at least a usenet service and in one case to make room in the budget for a new isp.

I was hoping verizon would be smart enough to have reconsidered this by now. But, if they don't restore the alt newsgroups in the next couple of weeks, I'll be taking my business to Cox.

There are MANY, MANY useful newsgroups in the alt hierarchy.

And - I'll admit it - I download stuff that comes under alt.binaries.

I've seen the kiddie porn stuff that seems to be generating the complaints. I was shocked the first few times I accidentally ran into, and judging from some of the postings, so were a lot of other users.

However, it is all exactly the same garbage, posted by exactly the same people, every day. I have filtered out a lot of it, and the rest is easy enough for a human to recognize that I almost never click on it.

I don't mean to say that it's OK for it to be there - it is just that the stuff has been there in the same form, every day, for well over a year, and if the NY Attorney General can't seem to track down the source and put a stop to it - then I think the problem is with the so-called "law enforcement" community, rather than the existence of certain USENET groups.

I"m so upset right now. I just switched my cell phone to verizon, and now I'm stuck with a contract. I want to take all of my business away at this point. It's just getting worse and worse. I want money back every month until I can find a new ISP. This is not the service I signed up for. What's the best place to find a new ISP?

Since Verizon will essential be offering just shell accounts now, will the price be lowered for the 'new & improved' service? What will be next, email & web hosting with the same lame (& very false) statement that no one uses Usenet anymore? Usenet statistics clearly state that the Usenet is being used now more than ever. Likely it will be used from other service providers than Verizon more than before as well...

I notice that after starting this thread, there has not been a single response or followup by anyone at Verizon. Is Eric Rabe a gutless coward, or does he have a sense of shame? Either way, it is a clear indication of the contempt Verizon has for its customers. I resisted Comcast because of its predatory monopolistic character, but Verizon has shown itself to be even worse. Goodbye Verizon.

I access ne.transportation, misc.transit.urban-transit, nyc.transit and otehr newsgroups devoted to New England, regional and world transportation issues. What, exactly, is offensive or unlawful about that? I agree with the other posters - you should reduce my DSL monthly fee by $10 if I'm going to have to pay another company in order to visit news forums of interest to me.

To me, this just sounds like a way for Verizon to lower its costs (lower bandwidth?). The newsgroups you are "permitting" access to are worth nothing to me. There's not one I ever read. I am certainly going to MAIL a LETTER and CALL your corporate headquarters and use online TECHNICAL SUPPORT CHAT and I URGE OTHERS TO DO THE SAME.

The Net is supposed to be "neutral" and I don't think it's Verizon's place to pick and choose what I can or should read. This newsgroup decision is a silly, pathetic, uncalled-for intrusion into my ability to read topics that I want to read.

I disagree with your new newsgroup policy. Out of approximately one hundred thousand news groups some politician finds 88 kiddie porn sites and you eliminate all one hundred thousand. Way to go. Cave in to a has been chicken s--t politician.

KNOCK KNOCK...................I hope the powers that be at Verizon are listening. Of course there is plenty of porn on the alt newsgroups, but there are also many groups that help many people such as the auto groups. I think we all know what has transpired. My Verizon bill went up this month, and the service provided has diminished. Thanks Verizon.

I totally agree with the first poster. This is absolutely ridiculous. All they have to do is block the offending subgroup .. not the whole tree. Unfortunately the child pornographers will just migrate to other newsgroups like giganews and the like. I'm not advocating anything, just stating a fact. I'm a programmer and I can definately say that this had NOTHING to do with child pornography and everything to do with bandwidth .. 88 groups could've just as easily been blocked, but they used a hammer instead of a scalpel. Idiocy .. complete idiocy. I don't use the newsgroups as much as I used to but it was nice to post every once in a while when I needed help (I use forums much more now).

Long and short of it is Verizon not only got strong armed by the AG of NY, they must've been planning this all along and this was the scapegoat they needed to make it happen.

What a load of bovine scatology...verizon's interest is in saving money and the child porn angle is just a small bone thrown to the NY Atty. General. Block the perverts, not legitimate users.

Verizon strikes again. I thought FIOS would be a nice choice getting sick of cables rates going up so on 1/5/08 salesman came to my house from verizon and sold me. after 3 times of taking off work and 14 times calling customer service most times on hold for 45 min to 1 hr they got it installed they promised 2 $75 gift cards for my trouble only got 1 cant call anymore now this I am considering just paying the $150 early term fee. there is a lot of useful info on the news groups. all they are going to make people do is pay for a news server with all the kiddie porn on it dont you think it would better to just block the offending groups and posts goodbye verizon I am sure with your great customer service you will keep billing me for the next 20 months

You guys are making an incredibly stupid decision to eliminate a lot of the classic Usenet social matrix, and as soon as someone else comes to my house and offers me broadband of any kind, you are history. I'll choose someone who offers me full Usenet access as part of their basic package.

I am appalled and dismayed by your recent decision to severely limit newsgroup access. To add insult to injury, you never notified me of this change. I found out when my access to your news server timed out, and the trouble-shooting process led me to this page. Yes, I received your email outlining changes to your Terms of Service, but it said absolutely nothing about newsgroups. Why?

I have a theory. I think you’re hoping to minimize the damage by not announcing to all your customers that you are effectively removing a service that they pay for. That would guarantee raising the eyebrows of even a subscriber that has never heard of a newsgroup. Sure, the notice is buried on your web site, but we all know that not everyone checks your web site on a daily basis, but we all read our email.

Shame on you. Shame on you for taking away a service your subscribers essentially pay for, and then hoping to sweep it under the rug. Shame on you for biting the hands that feed you. Shame on you for not standing up for free speech. Most of all, shame on you for trying to increase your bottom line in the name of “protecting the children.”

I am speechless.

My final message to all Verizon subscribers who have voiced their concerns here: please vote with your wallet. Fortunately, there are other ISP choices. I’ve been a Verizon customer since February, and this is a slap in the face.

This is ridiculous! If I reduced the service I gave to my clients, they would certainly expect a reduced charge! So I guess we can all expect to see our Verizon bills reduced accordingly!?

3 techinicians 8 hours to install Fios at my house. $200 a month check to Verizon.
Bonehead decission taking away a service I use.
Me ending my relationship with Verizon. Good business decison.
What's the ROI on that fiber line now.

alt.* groups has been there forever and many people using it.
And how come that stuggle with cp thing turns into ban of all alt.* groups?! I agree, this is ridiculous. 88 of 1000 - it's just a 0,9%. Go ban them! Nonsence.

Mr. Rabe -
I would encourage you and other committee members dictating policy changes to perform a simplified risk/benefit analysis or simplified Failure Mode (proactive approach). I surmise that this was performed with no indication as to rationale explained to the customer base; the reason being provided has obviously blatant "workarounds." If I were to remain a customer, I would request a more substantive reason for discontinuing a service, recommendation of an alternative, and failure to posit any hint of recompense as a result of policy change. I wish you well within the windstorm . . .

Mr. Mushak

Well, I gave you a shot. Everyone told me, "don't go to Verizon, they don't care about their customers". You proved it true. I signed up for your triple deal, but at the end of the contract, I'm leaving. Newsgroups are why I pay for broadband, I don't need 20/5 to view email. You could have censored the offending newsgroups, you know, like you did with boneless and others you didn't allow access to. Now, I'm dumping WWE on Demand to pay for the Newsgroup service I now have to subscribe to. I touted you to everyone, now I'm going to be letting everyone know about the censorship. What else am I not getting?


P.S. I went to your webpage to see about the news, you raised the internet to $58 a month? You're making Cablevision look good, and that's hard to do.

I am one more customer switching phone and internet, you guys screwed up

I have been a loyal customer of Belltele/verizon for over 40 years and as soon as my cable is installed I will cancel my DSL and telephone line. What you are doing is called Censorship....totally un-American. I can only hope that you get a huge backlash on your silly attempt at Censorship and I will happily join a class action law suit if offered!

I subscribe to netscapes news groups netscape.<whatever> apparently even this group is too much of a burden. I demand a reduction price in my FIOS contact.

So much for open source development.

Thats neat just after we renewed for 2 YEARS and now cannot access our genealogy groups because of pornography. You must be KIDDING.

Very poor decision. Perhaps Comcast has a better deal?

What you have done is to confirm that Verizon is
engaging in uncontrolled and arbitrary censorship of the MAJORITY OF
LEGITIMATE information accessable via Usenet, which amounts to a "big
brother" approach to Internet service. Further, in my opinion, it diminishes
the value of the service that I am paying Verizon for. I own a computer
consulting company, and have had several clients complain to me regarding
Verizon's actions with respect to this. I have encouraged them to write not
only to Verizon, but to their state's Public Regulatory bodies regarding
this, as it is a change that seriously and materially diminishes the value
of their Internet service without a corresponding reduction in the price
that they pay, which action may violate the tariff filings with Federal,
State, and local governmental bodies, including the franchising bodies in
most municipalities in New Jersey.

I would strongly recommend that Verizon reconsider their decision, and find
some other means of monitoring and eliminating the "unlawful content" to
which you refer. You should also be aware that several Federal courts have
held that Internet Service Providers cannot be held responsible for the
legality or morality of content which they carry but do not provide nor
originate. Therefore, Verizon's stated reason for this action appears
nothing more than a thinly veiled excuse for censorship which has no legal
or commercial basis, other than perhaps to reduce Verizon's cost in
maintaining newsgroup servers with adequate capacity to serve the entire
spectrum of newsgroup offerings available on the Internet.

Further, this action has no practical effect toward solving the problem that
the New York Attorney General's office has identified, namely the protection
against child pornography. To eliminate several THOUSAND newsgroups without
distinction in order to prevent access to 88 identified newsgroups appears
to be a gross over-reaction, and not one likely to have been intended by the
New York attorney general's office. Do you next intend to cut off access to
e-mail originating in certain countries on the theory that those countries
are likely to be the source of illicit images or ideas?

Further, it should be incumbent upon Verizon to immediate disclose to all
potential clients that their newsgroup offerings are heavily and overly
censored, so as to allow potential clients to factor this into their choice
of Internet Service Providers.

Unbeliveable verizon, where is your spine. Because of 88 bad newsgroups you people terminated 100,000 + newsgroups. Im going to termanate you as my dsl provider soon if you dont reverse what you have done. When you see how many customers you have outraged, then you will understand that saying, shot yourself in the foot.

Though I agree very strongly that child pornography has to be stopped completely, I do not believe this is the solution. People such as I spend time in the newsgroups and NEVER EVER engage in child pornography. So, in effect, I have been sensored from acceptable conduct. I have also been delt a great reduction in service without being compensated. This is unfair and when another similar option to FIOS becomes available I will leave Verizon. I suggest all do the same.

The elimination across the board of all alt.groups is a political knee jerk.
Verizon claims they can do this under their TOS. Ok,it works both ways,do we as
subsribers who helped build The backbone of intelligent alt. groups receive
renumeration. I chose Verzion for it's overall value and service.As an Investor
this was a poor decision. The argument of saving bandwith is a fallacy.Your
argument regarding child porn holds no water. Who benefits from this faux pax?
I am not renewing my contract when it comes due.I have switched my Long Distance
Carrier from Verizon as well.

This is horrible. I can't believe that Verizon has taken the stance that it's better to throw the baby out with the bathwater instead of simply blocking the 88 sited newsgroups. This reeks of a corporation simply seeing an easy way of cutting costs despite what their subscribers want.

I'd love to hear the justification for limiting newsgroups in such a fashion.

I totally support blocking kiddie porn. In this case Verizon is taking the easy way out instead of working with law enforcement to identify and block known child porn sites. So much for doing the right thing.

Soooo! Verizon learns from Comcast how to take away content from its customers, pretending to do a good thing for them, and in the process freeing up bandwidth for themselves. Screw you Verizon, you bunch of useless turds! I'll take that refund for the amount of content you're taking away, you idiots! Why don't you remove the Web also, I'm sure there's child porn there too. Don't forget to block torrents also, we might get poisoned that way also. Verizon officially now sucks!!!

I was hoping that Verizon would change it's mind, but I now see that it hasn't as the clock has struck 12. So if I switch to Verizon Fios TV will you remove HBO for showing a documentary on child rapist Roman Polanski? Will you remove Showtime for showing "The Professional", or Encore for showing "Lolitas".

Was this really about the NY Attorney General and child porn? Or is this just Verizon saving a buck on network storage and bandwidth?

I can't believe you just let the State of NY violate your customer's freedom of speech all across the country.

Instead of everybody complaining to someone that isn't going to listen, how about listing competitors. Anyone know a good competitor of verizon. I'll switch A.S.A.P.

I am not please verizon has decided to discontinue many newsgroups that I use.
It was bad enough the retention was only 14 days, but now you are removing the only newsgroups that I use, in favor of the "Big 8" that no one I know even uses.

I think my bill should be reduced accordingly since Verizon's free unlimited access to newsgroups is why I switched from cable to begin with.

-quote-
"The motive seems clear. By dumpling alt.* they dumped the largest most active part of usenet. Over 99% data resides in alt.* . So Verizon basically dumped usenet and blamed child porn. I don't believe for one moment that child porn was any more then a scape goat."
This is exactly what I thought the second I saw this news blog.
Having run an ISP that supported newsgroups AND binaries back in the 90's I know how much of a nightmare they can be. And on top of all that, you have the massive bandwidth usage that goes along with usenet binaries.
When an ISP weighs the Bandwidth/Hastle on one side, and beneficial/financial gain on the other side, the Bandwidth Hastle side weighs in heavier and hence, gets cut.

Here's a flys eye view of a conversation in VZ's corporate offices:
<CEO/BigBoss> "How much bandwidth is being used for normal web traffic?

<Statistics Geek> "About 50%, sir."

<CEO/BigBoss> "What is the other 50%?"

<Statistics Geek> "Well, 20% is email,2% is miscellaneous and 28% is usenet binaries."

<CEO/BigBoss> "Usenet what?"

<Statistics Geek> "Uhm its like a way for users to converse about any topic under the sun, but also a way to trade any type of music, movies, pictures or anything else they want for free. It's very popular sir."

<CEO/BigBoss> "Whats the demographic of the people that use this usenet thingy?"

<Statistics Geek> "About 10% of our userbase."

<CEO/BigBoss> "10% of our customers use almost 30% of our bandwidth on something that we can't generate revenue on??"

<Statistics Geek> "Yes sir."

<CEO/BigBoss> "Anything else I need to know??"

<Statistics Geek> "Sometimes someone puts child porn on there."

<CEO/BigBoss> "!"

See the picture here?

Every week I get phone calls and mail trying to convince me to switch with Cablevision internet. When asked why I won't switch when there speeds are faster I always proudly state that your provider does not provide the same newsgroup service as Verizon DSL. Now with the elimination of the Alt. newsgroups I will quickly switch to Cablevision internet so I can pay for a outside newsgroup service but at faster download speed. Its sad that I am one of the very first customers of DSL when it was introduced in the New York City area. Verizon will regret this as many will do like me and switch over. I calling my Cablevision provider after this written comment.

Citing bandwidth concerns, Verizon has stated that it will be removing several popular binary Newsgroups. You can read Verizon's statement on BroadBand Reports.com.

Due to extremely large growth in the Usenet service feed, we will be
removing eight (8) high-volume Usenet News Groups from our service tonight, February 12th, at 7:00 PM EST.

The following groups will be removed from our service:

alt.binaries.boneless
alt.binaries.cd.image.playstation2.dvdiso
alt.binaries.cd.image.xbox
alt.binaries.dvd
alt.binaries.dvdr
alt.binaries.misc
alt.binaries.nl
alt.binaries.x

In addition, we are immediately placing a temporary moratorium on the
creation of any new binary News Groups on our service.

We hope this will be a temporary condition. Over the coming weeks, we will be actively analyzing usage and feed data to determine an appropriate time to reinstate these groups.

We apologize for this inconvenience.

Best regards,

Rick - Verizon News Administrator


This was the first step in reducing our services, and thelatest, removal of all alt. , is the icing on the cake. I'm changing my ISP immediately. This was obviously a cheap tactic to reduce bandwidth demand....and no reduction in rate to compensate for reduction of services.

I guess all those homemade comics offended the NY AG. Hey, NY is one of the strictest places around. It's a good place to start limiting free speech. I'm glad that we know where Verizon stands on such things, though. So, it'll be no suprise when they start supporting additional items in the future.

Ridiculous. Lost a customer.

"This change will not affect our customers’ ability to use the Internet"

How can you make this claim? I for one use the no longer carried newsgroups as part of my daily internet experience. When I signed my 2 year commitment, I assumed that the level of service would not degrade, but I guess I am wrong.

This is bull. Call going into Verizon ASAP and will find out if it's the same for the other ISP's out here. If not, I will probably be getting a new ISP.

COINCIDENCE OR REVENGE?

After posting my less than complimentary message earlier, comparing Verizon’s move with “Peace in our time,” I discover I cannot access ANY, that’s right ANY Newsgroups. I can’t even search for a solution to a Microsoft Access problem (we all know what a den of kiddie porn they have over there in Redmond!)
Acting like a petulant child that been caught doing something really, really naughtly?

I do not like restricting my newsgroups to only those newsgroups in the Big-8 hierarchy.

For example I regularly participate in alt.support.mult-sclerosis. This newsgroup is not in the Big-8 hierarchy however as a disabled person with multiple sclerosis I find this group very important to me. Your solution to use a general news provider is unacceptable as they all charge a fee.

Please look into this and let me know of a different solution.

sledgehammer to kill a mosquito!!!

arrangements will be made, service will be cancelled!

Of course Eric Rabe has ZERO explaination or response to all these comments.

Well isn't that just Comcastic!

What other features are Verizon going to remove and contiue to charge us for. Perhaps it's time to shop around for another ISP?

Alt.<newsgroups> were the only thing that kept me as a loyal customer. Now there is no reason, except that pesky year contract I'm signed into. I guess I'll be checking today when that runs out and look for cheaper and faster service. VZ might still be the best deal going, and then, it might not be. I guess now I know why they want these multi year contracts.

This is the problem with monopolies like verizon. I thought the internet was supposed to be a democratizing tool for the dissemination of information. I expect my monthly fee to be reduced by at least $15 for the loss of this service.

I think this stinks. Ever since I became a verizon customer, I have told many people how good and customer-oriented you are. I WILL retract all those accolades now. I have been a newsgroup reader/contributor for years and when I switched from Charter to Verizon, was pleased to see the amount of newgroups you have OR HAD. Like I said before, this stinks.

So I'm being denied access to legitimate newsgroups that I used to use, but with no change in price for my loss of service. Since this is the kind of nonsense I can expect from Verizon, there's no chance of me switching from satellite to FIOS TV. Hope you're happy.

The motive seems clear. By dumpling alt.* they dumped the largest most active part of usenet. Over 99% data resides in alt.* . So Verizon basically dumped usenet and blamed child porn. I don't believe for one moment that child porn was any more then a scape goat.

Perhaps this is a a sign of things to come in regards to Verizons services to it's users.

You sold out all internet users, even the ones who dont know waht it is. Giving away our freedom, where is the reduction in price then????

I will be dropping my service from Verizon.All you had to do was remove the offending sites.It is obvious what you are up to.Why not try telling your valued customers the real truth for a change.

I was just about to pull the trigger on switching everything over to Verizon FIOS from Cablevision because they have eliminated channels from my cable. Now you drop the alt.binaires newsgroups. This has certainly stoped me from making the change.
Possibly I can find a provider who will give me more and not take away what I already have,

It is a terrible decision to eliminate the entire alt hierarchy in order to prevent the exchange of child porn. In brief summary, here’s why it is such a bad idea.

1. Contractual.

You contracted with many, many users to provide Usenet service among other service. On this basis, you and the consumers agreed to a price. Now you are unilaterally reducing the service provided for the set price. This policy subjects you to liability for breach of contract. I’m not a class action lawyer, but I imagine you’ll be hearing from one soon.

2. Investigatory

Child porn investigators are very effective when they are able to establish contact with those who trade it. If you eliminate the means to contact them, you also eliminate a very useful investigative tool.

3. Legal

Previous federal appellate decisions have stricken down laws or procedures, which are overly broad. You have eliminated access to a vast amount of legitimate information in order to prevent access to a limited amount. You will lose this issue in court.

4. Political

Is it really that smart to act like a totalitarian state like Saddam’s Iraq or Hitler’s Germany or Stalin’s USSR by eliminating access to so much legal material jut to prevent access to some illegal material?

Perhaps the AG of New York did not think through all of these issues. Have they agreed to indemnify you for all damages incurred for contractual and civil rights violations? I didn’t think so.

I would say I’ll see you in court, but I doubt you’d be able to spot me among the thousands of plaintiffs.

You have made a terrible decision. You should reconsider it before it gets worse.

Since you are reducing our service in the available newsgroups, how about me reducing what I'm paying you for the services I contracted for. Probably $15 a month will cover a subscription with a commercial source. This whole thing is just a way for you to gain some bandwidth in oversold markets.
As was posted by another user; "Since you are no longer providing the service I contracted for, what reduction in fee to me may I expect.
Or, as you have in the past, simply changed your service agreement and gone happily on your way. This is a deal breaker for me. Why should I pay you for internet service and pay someone else for the usenet service you are supposed to provide. COX is already in my house, and it is any easy shift to their total service". I agree with his post and will be changing to another provider. TV, Phone and Internet access.
We are moving closer to being a Nannie state.

Dear Verizon,

As a Verizon Newsgroup service user, I want to let you know about some
important changes that I will soon be making to my Verizon billing.

On June 24, 2008, I will be modifying my Internet access pricing plan.
Since Unlimted Newsgroup offerings make up one third of the service I
initially signed up for and you are removing this part of my service, I feel
it is only equitable that I pay one third less for my service.

Surely you can see the logic of this, an intelligent person could.

Considering that I just signed up for FIOS in my area (it just went in the ground last month) and canceled my 10+ year account I had with Brighthouse so I could enjoy things like local newsgroups service at fiber speeds, this sucks pretty harshly. Now I'm going to have to pay for a usenet service ($20+/mo) which suddenly makes the total FIOS price I'm paying OVER what I was paying at Brighthouse.

Thanks guys. Thanks for the service nerf.

I refuse to support anyone who without just cause or concern for their customers decides to remove several newsgroups that I use. I find it hard to accept that the business class subscribers will continue to have access while I cannot. Talk about feeling like a second class citizen. I live on a very tight budget & do not have the funds to subscribe to a 3rd. party newsgroup service. Since I see no signs of Verizon offering any price adjustments for the reduced service I've decided to cancel my DSL & move someone who will continue allow access to the "alt" groups.

Not one positive supporting comment for this move of Verizon. One might think Verizon would get a clue, but I doubt it. I would guess that next to go will be all newsgroups since most of their users don't even know what they are. Then P2P services to support the RIAA and MPAA. Then anything encrypted (because you might be doing something illegal and trying to hide it!) Then say goodbye to net neutrality. As a Internet user (Darpanet actually) since 1980, I cry.

> You could have easily removed the offensive newsgroups

That's the amazing thing. They apparently already HAVE removed the newsgroups, since a number of people noticed several newsgroups disappear over the past several months (the vast majority of which have absolutely nothing to do with the offensive content). If Verizon managed to filter out the illegal content that is being posted in off-topic newsgroups, none of this would have been a problem.

Any person who continues to pay verizon a single dime will get just what they are paying for, Censorship and governmental control.

Since you insist on pushing the religious right wing nuts views of whats right and wrong onto your service feel free to get your paycheck from them because you will see no more money from me.

Saying you're not blocking Usenet is semantics. You are removing literally thousands of discussion groups that have absolutely nothing to do with child porn. alt.sports.baseball.ny-yankees for instance. This is censorship of the worst kind. Someone cries "child porn" and Verizon caves in to political arm twisting.

Removing all alt groups is an overreaction of the worst kind but I have a feeling you wanted to do that as a business decision and this was merely an excuse. Next you'll be wanting to monitor everything we do online and claim it's to protect one group or another.

Apparently I will(?) still be able to read the newsgroup: sci.med.diseases.hepatitis

BUT I can't for the life of me understand why after ALL THESE YEARS I have been a paid dial-up subscriber I will no longer be able to read (or post) to:

alt.support.hepatitis-c
alt.support.diabetes

So now you are going to reduce my service on your Newsgroups Server & continue to charge me for the privilege of excess SPAM too? AND you have the need (GREED) to raise the price from $19.95 to more than 10% to $21.99 while eliminating the alt.* newsgroups entirely. Your Customer Care Center has never been able to help me eliminate the increase of SPAM which fills my Inbox - the "Spamblocker" is set to "ON". The trouble tickets generated and closed do nothing. Could it be the language and accent barrier? I use Outlook Express and adding the SPAM addresses to my blocked list is moot as the Spammers just generate fake headers. You are the third worst offender of IP/ISP that allows volume of SPAM.



"RayFossil"
"TBI-SVR"
(Hepatitus-C Survivor) 35 years
(Diabetes Survivor) 4.5 years

When I signed up for FIOS, I had one question, "is Usenet included". I was trying to figure out what the cost was going to be.

Now I see that Verizon thinks it's OK for me to have additional costs despite my 2 year contract. I'm not happy.

There is nothing wrong with the groups alt.home.repair, alt.cats.

It's time for Verizon to win back some customer good will and announce that "we've listened to our customers" and decided to only drop the offending groups.

What an excuse to reduce your servies - some of us used newsgroups for legit purposes & shouldn't be required to pay additional fees which is what is required through commercial services - funny that i haven't heard a word about a discount for those of us who used the newsgroups - I agree that child porn should be banned but you're logic just doesn't work & isn't fooling anyone - you're using this as an excuse to get rid of some of your over head & it's not a move you should be proud of - I'm moving to another ISP as soon as cam - you don't deserve my business..

here's what so wrong with what you're doing:

1) you're allowing AG from one state to strongarm you into changing policy for all you subs in all states.

2) by moving usenet traffic to external providers, you're prbably actually INCREASING your bandwidth cost.

3) Once you start screening content, you're opening yourself up to more legal actions by no sticking to your comon carrier status. Next thing you know, you'll be required to screen P2P traffic, web traffic, etc.

4) You've managed to anger and alienate your most savvy users. Nice going.

Meanwhile, my internet rate just went up. Pay more to get less? I may as well switch to cable and pay less to get less.

I have read with interest the number of comments on this Blog and the 0.verizon.* newsgroups regarding this issue. Your actions as outlined on the blog are tatamount to throwing the baby out with the bath water.

There are a lot of excellent resources available on the non-"Big 8" newsgroups ranging to support groups for cancer and diabetes sufferers to peer-to-peer user support for Microsoft and Symantic products to name a few. Instead of capriciously eliminating all the alt.* and other newsgroups that are not in the "Big 8" why don't you instruct your news administrator to simply unsubscribe to the 88 that NYS AG Cuomo found to be carrying CP?

Usenet predates the Web and has always been an excellent source and exchange of information for those who know how to use it.

There is some discussion that alleges that Verizon will continue to provide access to the full range of newsgroups (minus the 88) to commercial/business subscribers. Is this fact? If this is the case I find this patently unfair that individuals would be treated as "second-class" subscribers and deplore the decision.

Since there has been a great deal of valid comments regarding Verizon's decision I am hoping that there will be a reconsideration on the part of management and the legal people on what newsgroups to block and what to retain.

Fact is that only a very small number of subscribers have even heard of Usenet/Newsgroups and even less use the service. It has been argued that the downgrading of the service or even total elimination of it would not impact Verizon's revenue stream at all. Hopefully you will see that the subscribers who do use the service have made valid points and that Verizon will see the value in retaining most of the newsgroups it currently offers to all subscribers.

Its Obvious that you are doing this to save money... there is no other explanation, your excuse of blocking child porn is totally a fallacy.this does nothing to limit the trading of porn, simply moves it to other media... Try making a logical argument out of the fact that your public relations department has released two hypocritical statements months apart from each other. One stating your a proponent of Pier to Pier Networking companies (notice only the ones that make money ;) ) so your up for internet sharing of files, which is obviously where the pervert already are and will migrate to, as well customizing their own private peer to peer software. Then you cut access to the free distribution of media in newsgroups that requires more intelligence then the average computer user has, and also has more legal uses then illegal. Your last sentence spells out clearly how you want the public to believe you are out for free internet access, meanwhile you shaft all your customer for a few dollars. "Verizon has been a strong proponent of free access to all users to the Internet, and we remain so today"

Well, so much for signing up for FIOS.
First you force a DVR on customers when you change your STB provider [you can no longer program the STB to change channels at set times], now you cave in to a witch hunt. If you had a decent abuse staff you would not be in this position. You don't.

Comcast will continue to get MY money. As lame as they are, they provide a GIGANews feed as part of the plan - not CENSORSHIP.

This is the very definition of draconian.
*PLONK*

I can't help but think that this action by Verizon (and others) has deeper reasons. It really seems too simplistic to suggest that discontinuing access to certain Usenet groups will really do anything to stop child pornography! They will find other means and methods (hell, Verizon already told everyone to go to commercial services). What is Cuomo going to do next, go after these commercial services? I see this move more as a further corporate crackdown on illegal file-sharing, than a way to combat child porn. It probably is far more expedient for Verizon to use the "safe the children" argument (who can argue that this is not a laudable cause) than come out and say they are cutting "alt" groups because of copyright infringers.

Since there's probably C.P. on the World Wide Web, why not cut off access to that too!

Sounds to me like it's not about C.P. at all.

This action is very un-American and reeks of low intelligence and spinelessness.

I am curious as to exactly when Verizon became an enemy to the First Amendment and Freedom of Speech, and instead a lackey of moneyed fear-mongering politicians? Oh, that’s right, only those with MONEY get to say what they want, I forgot. When it comes to the Bill of Rights, only those who pay the bill have any rights.

The sheer nerve of it is breathtaking; a cowardly capitulation (was it “Peace in our time” or “Porn-free in our time?” I get the two confused, they’re so close); a slap in the face of a free exchange of ideas.

So, who in Verizon is the Ayatollah of Usegroups?

You have got to be kidding?? Drop all of the usable alt.* usenet groups because some loser decides to upload child porn to them randomly?? I had issues with Verizons newsgroups for several months last year and finally decided to go with another service. I kept getting told by tech support that there wasn't an issue with bandwidth when I could prove it to them and nothing was ever done. Now I get an email stating that they are dropping the STANDARD groups and going with some crap called Big 8 newsgroup hierarchies??? Does this mean that we will get a break on the cost of the service since you have taken it on yourself to make major changes in our service??? NOT bloody likely mate!!! typical corporate management. The few in charge that have no idea what their customer want dictate the policies for all... PFFFFTTTTTTTT!!!! I wash my hands of you lot!!! NONE of you are worth the powder it would take.....

If I were Verizon I would re-think my complete drop of all things alt.* and copy the Verizon Business model (no binaries, limited size on postings). The mass of anger at Verizon (and the Big 8 as well, who put up a "leave us alone, we didn't do this" webpage) will subside if we can keep our text only alt.* newsgroups. If not, the anger will manifest into something really bad when theory turns into practice. The thought of this makes a lot of people enraged. When it turns to reality I seriously do NOT want to between alt.* folks and Verizon.

"Verizon remains a strong proponent of free access for all users to the Internet."

Liar. If that were true, Verizon would not be confiscating normal Usenet access from 8 million subscribers and then awarding it back to only those who can afford to PAY EXTRA FOR FREE SPEECH ("Verizon Business").

Face it. Your company has screwed up BIG TIME. You have allowed a cheap publicity-seeking political predator in a far-away city to hound you into neutering our built-in access to a GLOBAL public discussion medium that has existed for three decades.

This completely transcends dropping a lesser-used service to save money. You have in actuality made a political gesture to the public. And that gesture is: "Verizon supports and endorses by example wide-scale censorship to appease those who profit from public hysteria." You have also opened the doors wide to others now stepping up with their own censorship demands. Where will this end?

Expect more than just former Verizon usenet users to drop their subscriptions to all Verizon-brand services -- including myself. Expect many others who object to your political gesture to make their very own political gestures by following suit.

In conclusion: GO. BROKE. Also, read the newsgroup "0.verizon.discussion-general" ("0" is a zero) on your company's own Usenet server to see how many countless others feel the way I do.

So it's feasible to selectively remove only the offensive material for one group, but not another? At least be honest and say it's about money - not this holier than thou stuff about protecting the world from kiddie porn.

"Verizon remains a strong proponent of free access for all users to the Internet."

Liar. If that were true, Verizon would not be confiscating normal Usenet access from 8 million subscribers and then awarding it back to only those who can afford to PAY EXTRA FOR FREE SPEECH ("Verizon Business").

Face it. Your company has screwed up BIG TIME. You have allowed a cheap publicity-seeking political predator in a far-away city to hound you into neutering our built-in access to a GLOBAL public discussion medium that has existed for three decades.

This completely transcends dropping a lesser-used service to save money. You have in actuality made a political gesture to the public. And that gesture is: "Verizon supports and endorses by example wide-scale censorship to appease those who profit from public hysteria." You have also opened the doors wide to others now stepping up with their own censorship demands. Where will this end?

Expect more than just former Verizon usenet users to drop their subscriptions to all Verizon-brand services -- including myself. Expect many others who object to your political gesture to make their very own political gestures by following suit.

In conclusion: GO. BROKE. Also, read the newsgroup "0.verizon.discussion-general" ("0" is a zero) on your company's own Usenet server to see how many countless others feel the way I do.

Free newsgroups really kept me a VZ customer. Now your no different than the cable co in my view. If your eliminating the majority of the newsgroups, I agree a rate reduction is in order.

Talk about over reacting to a problem. There's pornography on web sites too, so I guess you should cut out all access to www locations. This change to our service should allow anyone to get out of there contracts free of charge.. funny how that's not mentioned.

Guess my first post on this got lost 'in the ether' ;-)
Between raising my rates and turning off the alt.* newsgroups, your service now costs more than the competition (Cablevision). I urge unhappy users to vote with their wallets and either move to their cable company or downgrade their service level if possible.

Since Verizon has chosen to censor, er, EDIT the list of available newsgroups, one of the few things that actually separates Verizon from the cable ISPs;

*and since VZ is not offering a rate reduction;

*and since VZ expects (actually suggests) that I pay someone else to access what VZ was including in my contract;

*and since VZ is still not offering anything faster than 3Mb aDSL in my area;

I guess I really should go ahead and look at one of those cable/ISP bundles. I'll get faster speeds and overall save money. I WAS looking at nuking cable and having dish/DSL/phone package, but now it makes more sense to nuke DSL and phone and live with cable/cableISP/cellphone. (BTW, my cable company also offers phone service, would you like me to look into that, too?)

I've been a VZ customer since it was Bell Atlantic, and I've had pretty good service experiences, but I'm not putting up with this nonsense. You could have easily removed the offensive newsgroups; this is simply the easy way out and a money-saving tactic.

I am paying you for full access to the internet. You are now restricting that access and I believe I am entitled to a discount on the monthly fee I pay to Verizon because of this restriction.

Your recent newsgroup reduction decision is unfortunate. Two days before the announcement I had ordered an upgrade from FIOS Internet only to internet, phone, TV & set top boxes. That order got cancelled yesterday. I will be canceling my FIOS as soon as I have an alternative installed.

Does this mean all the alt.* groups are gone? That really is bad news, you are forcing many to pay for an expensive newsgroup host. There are many non-porn groups in the alt.* to which I subscribe, such as alt.binaries.music.classical, alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.classical. These groups do not post pictures except as album art. In short I will take a serious look at changing ISPs.

There are no kiddy porn news groups on Verizon afaik. Anything remotely resembling that - I had never seen one anyway since it carries only 40% of groups - was removed weeks ago in a first attempt at appeasement. So this is just a ploy to get the company out of the business of competing with its more profitable business of selling the same material as a service, as well as, to avoid prosecution by industry groups increasingly hurt by such traffic and the economic "downturn," and out for blood. The irony is, of course, that the Usenet is dying anyway, replaced by P2P, and sheer lack of interest, nearly everything but new releases already having been shared, altho there has been some resurgence in the past few weeks with the rise is prices. Verizon began letting its Usenet operation slide more than a year ago, and would no doubt like to save the expense. They likely feel they can't be seen to be to be offering it as a new service, so have not made it an extra (as they have some tech support), engaged in any effort to improve it or turned it over to an outside provider like Comcast and others have done. I have little doubt that this will provoke a lot of users to switch to other ISPs, since if prices are the same, why not get free news? The question is whether the other ISPs will follow suit. For myself I am invsetigating a bundle from Cox.

What a bucnh of crap! How much can i expect my bill to go down with the reduction of my service. I am going to have to look else where for my internet service. If you ever get prostate cancer I hope they remove your body at the hip instead of fighting the cancer. Same idea....

I'm not sure I understand why all alt.* newsgroups need to be removed for home users in order to combat kiddie porn, but a far more rational and less far-sweeping solution suffices for business users. Could it be that verizon is lying about its motivations for dumping the service, and that this action has nothing to do with kiddie porn?

well, my bad for switching to Verizon Fios from Cablevision, will not be renewing once my contract is up. Everybody and their grandmother know this is not about child porn, it was just an excuse for Verizon to cut cost. They could have done a better job hiding the cost cutting measure.

This is so brilliant. As it stands right now, people who post child porn can be tracked (by their I.P. address) and easily located from amongst Verizon customers. Arrests can then be made. But now, they will switch to anonymous news servers and be impossible to track down. Verizon has done a great job to protect the rights ... of child abusers !

You just raised my rates for my 20/5 service and now this ?
I will be calling to lower my speed in order to find some way to take back SOME of my $. That's assuming your billing system will actually work and bill me properly !My contract has expired and you are giving me more reasons to go back to the cable company.
I don't believe for a minute that you couldn't find who is posting child porn if you really wanted to.
This is about controlling expenses on your side, nothing more.
You are still THE PHONE COMPANY.

Verizon has turned tail and effectively blocked its users from access to perfectly legitimate news groups. True, even the most innocuous alt newsgroup carries some porn content due to spamming, but of course Verizon's response to spamming has been incompetent and indifferent.

Verizon fails to successfully block spam (much of it dealing with enlarging my member)in my email and on many occasions, legitimate communications from software companies abroad and overseas have been completely swallowed without notice to other parties. Gee--why doesn't Verizon eliminate email and Internet Access; that way, they can collect a fee for no service whatsoever.

When my service contract expires, Verizon is history. Way to go.

Nice. Dumping the whole alt tree? What does my cancer support group have to do with kiddie porn? Will Verizon be giving us a credit on our bills, that we can use to pay for a 3rd party USENET service?

Please tell me why these groups which I regularly read and post had to be eliminated: alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers,alt.tv.lost,alt.support.amputee

I already use opendns because Verizon's DNS is unreliable. I already use google mail because Verizon's mail is unreliable. I stuck with Verizon b/c it had the best usenet service. Now, there's no reason for me not to go to DSL with another company or go to cable. Can't be any worse.

How about this: drop usenet altogether and reduce my fee by $10 monthly so I can get usenet service elsewhere?

Your new policy to drop the alt.* newsgroups shows the people that make these decisions have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

Just in time!
I decided to try Verizon, in the DSL flavor, as it was a more cost effective solution than was Comcast. My agreement only runs a few more months. This couldn't have happenned at a better time. Now I can plan which non-Verizon route I'll take for the future.
Policing private citizens while electing the likes of Spitzer gives a clear view of the policies of Verizon.

After scouring millions of images from apparently all newsgroups over a period of several months, New York AG Mario Cuomo's task force found child porn on 88 newsgroups (http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2008/june/june10a_08.html). The task force recommended tagging and blocking the child porn images. With over 100,000 newsgroups, it's unbelievable that Verizon is reacting by cutting off access to thousands of innocuous newsgroup bulletin boards, many with long-time devotees. This is another example of draconian actions that entrenched leadership take all the time in the name of the next trumped-up need to enhance public safety. Instead, the people actually suffer from reduced liberties, pushed even further into the passive worker/consumer slot that privileged leadership prescribes. Verizon's actions acmount to cutting off the nose to spite the face, and the reductions in online freedom of choice will surely backfire against the company.

This is the most pointless case of overkill I've seen in a long time. The vast majority of the alt.* groups are harmless. Many are downright useful. For that matter are you going to delete all the Microsoft.* groups too? To what concievable end?

PS just because the NYS AG's office is too stupid to differentiate between offensive newsgroups and the rest of the alt. hierarchy is no excuse for Verizon to play along with this charade.

This is ridiculous. There are THOUSANDS of valid newsgroups in the alt. hierarchy which have nothing to do with inappropriate content. Verizon could have easily removed the offensive newsgroups (in fact they appeared to have removed unrelated newsgroups over the past few months which were probably spammed with inappropriate content). What's to stop these spammers from posting stuff to misc.consumers and having that removed?

I am a long-time Verizon DSL customer. I am still at 1.5mpbs service because I am too far from the central office to get faster and Verizon has no immediate plans to install FiOS in my neighborhood (I know, I had the negotiating team check, because I have underground utilities it will be years). However, I had stayed with Verizon because I liked the service and the newsgroups were reliable and fairly complete. With this change, my satisfaction with Verizon is gone and I will be switching to Cablevision's Optimum Online (which will be faster and cheaper). I will likely take my phone service as well and give them all of my business, even though I don't like having a single point of failure.

Thanks a lot, Verizon.

The alt.* hierarchy includes a number of technical support newsgroups and I'm told a large number of support groups for serious diseases. It is very foolish of Verizon to dump the whole alt.* hierarchy (and all the local hierarchies, too).

This kind of censorship is intolerable. Most of the newsgroups you are CENSORING and BLOCKING have nothing to do with child pornography and I consider this to be a LAME excuse for a huge reduction in service. I will be looking elsewhere for internet service. I am against child pornography as much as you are, but this is NOT the way to go about it. While you're at it, what are you doing to block access to regular INTERNET PAGES WHICH DISPLAY CHILD PORNOGRAPHY - - - NOTHING !!!!

There are too many important and useful groups in the alt.* hierarchy to just turn them off. It's an obvious over-reaction by people who have no idea what they're doing. And then this language in the notification email is really over the top. Apparently they think the user base is stupid, too!

"IMPORTANT: If you continue to subscribe to unsupported newsgroups, you may experience poor computer performance and slow throughput speeds. Failure to unsubscribe may also interfere with the functioning of the Verizon network or use of the network by other Verizon users, which is a violation of our Acceptable Use Policy."

Verizon screws up again! This is a slippery slope. VZ has removed alt groups...What's next? Will VZ start blocking websites the government finds objectionable. VZ is trying to differentiate itself from the competition through its network. What network? The censorship network. Child porn should be stopped, but as soon as you bend over for governemnt they wnat more and more. Who cares how fast VZ's FiOS netowrk is when it censors the content. Looks like I'll be canceling my VZ FiOS triple play for Comcast.

Can I get out of my contract???

Re: cutting off alt newsgroups.

It is most annoying to suddenly have service reduced while charges remain the same. I will now need to subscribe to a third party newsgroup provider to read, for example, alt.music.saxophone, while continuing to pay Verizon for services it no longer offers. Only a small number of the alt hierarchy newsgroups are involved in pornography. I think Verizon is just using fighting child pornography, which everyone supports, to save a few bucks by cutting off a whole lot of other newsgroups.

So much for Verizon. Blocking my subscription to alt.music.journey must have the pedophiles running to to hills. Time to rethink cable.

So much for Verizon. Blocking my subscription to alt.music.journey must have the pedophiles running to to hills. Time to rethink cable.

Classic example of throwing the baby out with the bath water. As a loyal customer from 2000, when Verizon first offered DSL in NYC, I'm absolutely appalled that you decided to eliminate all but the 'Big 8'. I demand a reduction in the monthly service charge!

Using child porn as an excuse to block out giant swathes of legitimate content is no better than using terrorism to justify passing laws that take away our freedoms and rights. Every day we are getting closer and closer to the police state and it's ridiculous that so many companies and people fall so easily to this political nonsense.

You mean legit discussion groups like alt.sports.* are blocked too? Are you serious?

Why are you eliminating groups like nyc.transit and alt.cellular.verizon? These are legitimate discussion groups.

Boy you guys are truely gutless. Grow a spine.

GOD, I just LOVE verizon! In my entire life, I've got to say that no company comes even CLOSE to being as bad at this company - not by a long shot!

I mean, all those tech support people in India that waste 2 hrs. of your life confirming an issue, then opening a ticket - a ticket which gets closed w/out any resolution. Then, when you call back, the same thing happens again and again as the problem is always on *your* computer, but not on verizon's end. How sad it is that it took ME to tell verizon there was a problem accessing this news server in IN, and in order to get through to them that it was on their end and effecting multiple customers, I had to call presidential appeals, and then their employee had to FIGHT w/ the technicians to point out the problem as they didn't want to admit the issue was on their end. Two months or so later, the problem is fixed..but what did I get for my inconvenience? Any refund? Any apology? Nothing! And why did I even bother if this was going to happen.

You have got to love Verizon's solution to this problem! Instead of removing the handful of groups that probably contain disgusting kiddie porn, they're removing almost all of usenet! What a solution!!! BRILLIANT IDEA, you %#@$#@$#@!

So, now that you're taking away part of the service that you've offered ever since I signed up w/ your awful company many moons ago, do I get a discount for you taking this away? hmm? No? What a *shock!*

Granted, considering this company has oversold the bandwith so much in my area that I'm almost at dial up speeds during the day and only at 3MBit between midnight and about 8am, I guess I shouldn't be surprised, should I?

Thanks Verizon, yet again, for absolutely nothing!!! You're the best!

I don't see why all the alt newsgroups have to be jettisoned. Many of them have nothing to do with child or any other kind of porn. There are health support, network-tv-show discussions, how-to-knit, & many other general interest topics.

I learned of this coming over-reaction on an alt.<health> newsgroup -- certainly not from any open, obvious announcement from Verizon. It wasn't even that easy for me to find the information here -- and I still don't know where on VZ's site it is.

If Verizon can scrutinize web pages for objectionable content, why can't they just look at newsgroups instead of tossing out whole categories? What's so bad about alt.support.cancer? or even alt.tv.desperate-housewives?
I am annoyed.

Since you are no longer providing the service I contracted for, what reduction in fee to me may I expect.
Or, as you have in the past, simply changed your service agreement and gone happily on your way. This is a deal breaker for me. Why should I pay you for internet service and pay someone else for the usenet service you are supposed to provide. COX is already in my house, and it is any easy shift to their total service.

This is ridiculous? What possible purpose will blocking alt.collecting.juke-boxes accomplish? It's a Usenet group focused on JUKEBOX COLLECTING! There is NO CHILD PORN on the group - I don't even recall when the last off-topic thread was started.

Are you going to reduce my monthly access charge by $5/month so I can sugscribe to a commercial Usenet server?

This is pathetic - it's exactly the kind of thing Comcast would do.

I applaud the stand VZ is taking against child porn.

But I think eliminating alt.* is going a bit far. If you blocked the binary and warez groups, you'd eliminate 99% of your problem groups.

There are many useful groups in the alt.* hierarchy (alt.sports.* for example).

If by "free access for all users to the Internet" you mean, becoming a tool of political BS, then yes Verizon showed that today. Thanks for making me pay for a commercially available alternative. I like giving $15.00 a month to another company other than Verizon. I am glad Verizon has yet again, failed to separate itself from the masses and protect it's customers rights. Instead it is using a heavy handed approach and ruining it for everyone. Don't you think that child porn can found in other places and this isn't going to stop it. Terrible move. This is exactly something Comcast would do and a reason why I left them. TERRIBLE, you are no better than them. Terrible.

THIS is absolutely ridiculous! Why not just remove the offending groups? I hate this all or nothing mentality that corporate America thinks will fix all the world's ills.

So in other words, we can now subscribe to something like Easynews and get the same access? Sort of defeats the purpose then, no? Because that's exactly what these perverts are going to do.

The innocent masses once again suffer for a few morons.